This is all well and good, but in 9years I've never worked in a group with a Senior IC (Windows, IE, .NET), though some architects. Be nice, and clear in your communications. You want to test more cases than he does, you want to build something that draws users to what you're doing more than to his.You're never competing with your manager. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. Its a bit like the famous phrase about the definition of obscenity. I've achieved level 65 in a field technical role and it wasn't that hard. in my previous post i should have included a link to our internal mentor site for finding a mentor. L63 guys are supposed to influence their entire skip level org. But that's kind of the point -- simplify your approach. Even with all good intentions, they can even be ineffective mentors (although I still highly recommend the mentoring program, as long as you change your mentor every year). Kathleen Hogan. I will mis-direct and confuse you with hearsay. Leadership: pro-active leadership that convinces team members of the future direction and even helps to . Shock and awe awaits. It's really not that complicated. But if your manager is undervaluing your work, and *that* is the factor that is making you unhappy, you can fix that. They want you to succeed, they want the team to succeed. Mar 26, 2018 2 Eng, Go to company page That is the guy to beat. One question a manager will think about before promoting you is how many times he had to clean up after you pissed off someone else - especially if it's someone on another team. In my org the cut is 70% on promos. I would get vague directives like you need to be the thought leader or you need to improve your system knowledge. I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. jcr said >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. For me, it will take some serious job switching to get there. Experienced Digital Transformation & creative leader with a strong executive presence, experienced in creating value, building relationships & consensus across board-level client executives that . It's a knife fight to 63. Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. I have also always looked for those problems (opportunities). Right now I am 56. I like such themes and everything that is connected to them. You want to test more cases than he does, you want to build something that draws users to what you're doing more than to his.Having part of the bonus be for how the team succeeded relative to the other teams might focus competition towards the competition and not exclusively on co-workers.Add up the review scores of each team member and rank teams. How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? Eng, Go to company page I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. So honestly, what is your boss's answer about if you'll reach L63? I was always righteously indignant when I encountered asshats and incompetence and I would rail against the losers to anyone who would listen, and then I would do whatever it took to drive my agenda through to completion.I focused 100% on producing vast quantities of superior quality work -- which endeared me to my management chain and opened up a crap-ton of doors at those early levels. I know devs who got there without doing anything substantial but their manager was nice and there was no competition.In short, Level 63 to me is not important and I really dont respect 63s unless they I've interacted with them.Level 65+ is another story and are devs who have the stuff almost always.- Someone at Level 62. So if you want a promotion and don't get it: drop everything you are doing now and start working on your promotion, i.e. MS is a carrot and stick culture with some heavy emphasis on stick. An Australian graduate with over 23 years of experience in the IT industry covering various business natures and sizes across startups and large corporations taking on roles from full-stack development in both open source and Microsoft technology stack to architecture design and strategic roles such as Technical Director/CTO. I'm interested in hearing your stories of success, mentorship, and turning a career that was off-path back on-track. Browse all Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salaries Frequently asked questions Is that a req. You can work hard and grind it out. At L63 in particular you break out of the pack with expertise in the "how" you accomplish things. Let's slim down Microsoft into a lean, mean, efficient customer pleasing profit making machine! Write it down in a team-culture career section you keep in OneNote (start that section now if you don't have it). However L64 takes some time and L65 is very difficult. This is something that should happen on an ongoing basis.Unfortunately, it doesnt happen, and that is what frustrates a lot of people.Saying that you dont know what exactly an L63 is, but will know one when you see him is a big cop-out. Any tips will be greatly helpful. Is there a way one can dream of getting promoted in this noxious environment which is the oabg? >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".That's the absolute worst advice one can give to a Microsoft employee, IMO. did this post dieNo, the Mini-Electronic Brain did. Any idea on when is this going to change? Not only do I have a much more interesting job with much less BS, I make more money as well. What advice do you need? Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" At Microsoft, the levels start at 59 and go beyond 80. But that will only be one more indicator that you are not ready to "face" your obstacles. Starting to reach out and grab some of what you would be doing with a bigger scope/higher level.An earlier poster said it. Seems like "director" in Microsoft is not really a level like it is in google or fb (not sure what it means). The news is in. Will a team that needs exactly the skills and interests that you have pass on you because of some HR guideline? My best guess is that you think it should be await. Isn't morale over the holidays going to be just wonderful? One of the interesting things about the level structure that I find interesting is that you are always expected to perform higher than your level. It sounds trite, but it's true. Many senior people, even VPs read this blog. Proficient in product delivery, business & cost transformation, supplier management, client relationships and growth opportunities Working extensively at senior board level to deliver high value . And having a friend gain less than 3000/yr with a promo to Pricincipal cemented that. I was probably at risk of topping out at level 62 or 63 at one point but worked hard to change my brand and good things happened as a result. They had to be given outlandish levels so as to match their previous compensation. Expect my salary to go up after the cleanup. You should NOT be looking to get more money to stay in a job you don't like. Given that quite a few Microsofties are going to find themselves locked into their current group for a while, the ability to succeed by swinging on the vines to a new group is going to be rare. Being a TS can work the same way. So a sub role at L61 = corp L63 and vice versa.So from a sub perspective:L58 and below are relatively junior roles where you have zero influence outside of meeting your commitmentsL59 -> L60 is a tougher jump. If you don't have a manager like that or the manager cannot/will not set clear commits/accountabilities - when the freeze lifts, time for you to look at new areas where you can bring something to the table. A Senior Director gets a basic salary package of $190,000, which gets as high . Weirder sh*t has happened before. Microsoft is so unique (and not in a good way) that you need to have blogs like this and focus on managing your career inside the hobbesian nightmare, rather than making good and cool software. He is a very, very smart guy.For many people, what made them successful as a level 62 IC will kill them as a level 62 manager. If you're off-path, you can turn it around. Thanks M$Underpay. When you take on the toughest problems that risk the product and make that problem go away, they are happy. Microsoft Director level role - Level 66 - what should I expect from COMP sideYOE-15Current TC- 235k, Go to company page My manager and I had a plan to influenc that person and it worked. It's also a well-known fact that there is a disparity in levels between Office and now Sinofsky's Windows and the rest of the company, especially below 65 level.About asking your manager and getting their feedback, we're assuming that managers are capable of giving candid feedback. Obviously a key word in my advice was explicitly. Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously. So far, we all appear to have jobs, but man, what a shocker, I thought ours was one of the more stable teams.Not sure what happens to our Director, he seemed a bit shocked himself when he delivered the news today. Join the Levels.fyi community to chat with employees at Microsoft and other tech companies. Good luck with that. If there is a perception of unfairness, then those who think that they have been treated unfairly will rapidly lose their motivation. In fact, every boss I've had has told me that I was the most frustrating employee they've ever had, mostly because I ignore half the things they ask me to doAnyhow, here's my advice: do a good job.That's it. The scope imcreases, the risk increases and the visbility increases. The microsoft people have already decided you're not a good 'fit'. In general, people are not leveled, jobs are. Mini, as good as your writeup is, there is too much emphasis on this level promo business in MS, and I have seen my fair share of people that have been burnt by it. If you go looking for those problems though, you better be prepared to deliver. It's what you can offer, not what you want out of it that most teams are looking for. Had I only known this info when I started at Microsoft. Everything else is irrelevent or works against your promotion. I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. Continuously revisit those and discuss with your manager. Thank goodness for this blog, where MS employees are free to talk about their personal struggles, unlike "other" blogs that censor/prohibit such discussions, so that they can live in some fantasy land and avoid dealing with the real issues. Here's how to find it. Got two promotions - still level 60. Of course I ensure my manager and skip-level are aware of my contribution as a mentor, but I figure that as long as I'm in front of the wave, the best way for me to advance is to move the wave forward. Up or out as they say.I found a niche I was happy in. Then they start pinging the manager on why and putting pressure on them to do something, move them up or out. Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change.But, Mini, isn't your 'raison d'etre' just the opposite? You've made 3 mistakes. If you read CSPs this is the underlying message more or less. It's also a well-known fact that there is a disparity in levels between Office and now Sinofsky's Windows and the rest of the company, especially below 65 level.Can anyone elaborate on that? Losing focus of your target next career level will leave you with nothing but regret and wasted time, sometimes years. But good leadership at the top can make visibility a positive thing for the person getting it and for the org who sees the person getting it. How do you ensure there is no conflict of interest. And you know something? Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change. During that time I had two good to great managers. This 360 review is confidential and you dont have to share it with your mgr unless you chose to do so. The Goldstars have already been canceled for this quarter.Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. an ex-manager used to tell me, if the org needs him to sweep the floor, he would ensure that he would be the best sweeper in the world (no offense to my janitor friends, just an expression). Here is my question, I don't trust that my manager will fight for me to get me to 63 for the following reasons:- The area I own is not big enough for a 63 but at the same time there is not other areas he can give to me given where we are as a team without taking away from my peers, something he would not want to do unless there is a big problem with a peer not delivering which is not the case.- Innovation - this leaves me with trying to come up with other areas that the team can focus on in addition to current goals to leap frog us and which I can own; so far even though some of my ideas are really good (according to the mgr) the timing is off (ie the team has not reached that level yet where my ideas would be practical to implement given the big ROI)In short I can't trust that this mgr will get me to 63 in a time frame that I would like to see it happen (provided that I nail the qualities you highlight for a 63) which leaves me with the following choices:-Sticking around and continue working on displaying 63 qualities until the above points change, and who knows how long that will take- leave for another team internally (which means a bit of time to establish myself again etc) but at the same it would give me more clear timeline of when I can say I am 100% delivering as a 63.-get external offers (eg from Google), bring it up with the mgr and thereby force a change (more responsibility) since leaving would hurt the team in at least the short term. * Sell yourself: I know it sounds odd and contradictory. All these comments apply generally to any matured company and life in general. So no time like the present to practice where you can. How do you get the right job/work that will make the impact. Heck, we would be lucky if many can do even that well. The average entry-level engineer or program manager will have a total compensation of $125,665. In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? As for my own history, successful strategies have followed 3 major buckets:From 59 --> 62 (I started as a 10 in the old system) I simply kicked ass and took no prisoners. While cash bonuses stay relatively stable as a percentage of salary over the course of a Microsoft employee's career, stock compensation can rise to nearly 20% of annual income at higher levels, according to the crowdsourced data. Two years ago I realized that the MS treadmill (trying to become what my dysfunctional manager wanted) was making me nuts. It doesn't matter what you want - you aren't the one deciding when you get promoted. if they'd only stop doing X and start doing Y on a sustained basis, I could see it Microsoft: Citi Cuts Ests, Target On PC Slowdown. You try that in subs (who actually generate the revenue, HQ typically dont) - but the question is - do they dare push such a thing in the US? For example, when I joined MS in 1990 there were 6 devs working on the first version of Word for Windows. Thank you for reviewing my profile. What now? You must ask for a promotion when you think you are ready. The "Most Likely Range" represents values that exist within the 25th and 75th percentile of all pay data available for this role. As long as that's the case, I doubt anything would change.The method that this is done is troubling also. Me? From my perspective (L67) here's what you need to nail:1. Maybe you are ready, but you and your manager can plan what would be the assignment that would show that you're ready. These posts are provided "as-is" with no warranties and confer no rights. It's probably true that there's more to the story and that they actually have important skills that matter. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work.So my question to the more experienced is this - how does one get the attention of management when they are focused on their own problems, their favorite underlings (of which I am not one), and when there is not enough work to go around? Make sure you have chosen commitments that you can exceed, and that you deliver visible and significant value to your business and customers. Steven A. Ballmer Chief Executive Officer, Microsoft Corporation. Perhaps someone can explain to me how you get successfully promoted without your boss's support. That is one aspect where they are forced to build fake relationships with directors and GMs to get promoted and unfortunately those who maintain good relatiship with them get promoted. Find a way to make or save them money. Senior-level Marketing Executive with experience in the consumer and B2B industry. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. And what is happening now trying to move up after becoming a Dev Manager? In spite of it, I've been promoted 8 times in 12 years. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. I saw several far more technically skilled people in the group who deserved this that were passed over.
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